I read yesterday of two alarming results from a University of California survey of 9,000 people. 1 in 5 said violence to promote a political cause would be appropriate and 7% said they would be willing to kill someone toward that goal. Really? Have we sunk that low believing the divisive rhetoric of too many that so many would commit capital offenses for a politician’s gain?
The majority of these folks have felt empowered by the former president to be more public. I guess all the folks who are pleading guilty or being convicted for an insurrection on our Capitol building at the behest of the former president are not evidence enough that this is a poor path forward. Maybe when the former president is charged with sedition for his apparently more active role in the insurrection these folks will be given pause.
And, just because the right has its extremists who are promoting violence and even death, that does not give any extremists on the left a hall pass to do the same. Civil discourse and peaceful protest are more than fine. Violence is not the answer, unless your question is when can I go to jail?
One of America’s key tenets is the peaceful transition of power. We are more divided than before because a former president’s ego is so fragile, he cannot admit he lost and per his niece will “burn it all down to avoid losing an election.” It is only our democracy – we must hold it dear and ignore those sycophants who are aiding and abetting the bogus claims of the former president. I was delighted to see a bipartisan Senate bill pass to better protect the electoral process to prevent a demagogue from trying what the former president did – an insurrection.
Taking the former president at his word is a fool’s errand. Listening to his allies and sycophants who are holding cans of white paint to whitewash history is also such. But, so is taking the word of so-called leaders of any movement that condones and promotes violence. That is inane. It is also criminal. If your group promotes this, find the door before it is too late.
musingsofanoldfart 
Yeah, I saw these, too. The widespread approval on social media of the ‘Punch a Nazi in the face’ episode seems to have shifted the acceptance of violence as a legitimate political expression from the extreme to the center especially amongst younger people. This is not good. That a large portion of people fail to grasp that approving the punching of a Nazi in the face is itself a fascist tactic promoting Nazism makes one shake one’s head in disbelief. Accepting violence is an admission of failure of one’s position on merit.
Tildeb, good point. I love the diatribe from “An American President” where Michael Douglas’ character speaks of supporting the right of someone you have spent a lifetime arguing against to be able to speak against what you believe. That is freedom of speech.
Yet, we cannot condone violence. We should not condone name calling and labeling either. They all represent approaches of folks who have a poor argument. Thanks for your comment. Keith
Hello Keith. I have seen the memes and even the video that Tildeb refers to. Yet I disagree with both of you as you both did not state that while the video is over the top, the idea behind it is not. Damn it my husband’s father fought the Nazis in the war, I will be damned before I accept them as being OK on my country now. We just had the US House hold a vote to investigate Nazi sympathizers in the US military and 157 Republicans voted against it. What does that tell you? I am sorry but the time to play nice is past if we want to hold on to the democracy that is the US. Hugs
Once upon a time, the ACLU went to court on behalf of Nazis to march through a Jewish neighbourhood not because they wanted to ‘play nice’ but because when you don’t support the civil rights of others that you demand for yourself – for whatever the censorious reason may be – you’ve already lost the battle FOR civil rights. This is what antifa doesn’t get. Punching a Nazi in the face for saying things you disagree with is what a Nazi does, Scottie, and not someone who respects the civil rights of others.
Scottie, thanks for your comment. I fully understand your sentiment. To me, it is OK to identify hate groups and look into them. The Southern Law Center ((I think that is the group) tracks about 1,000 or so hate groups. Yet, it is another to deny folks the right to speak – provided they are NOT creating harm. Someone urging the harm to others is not protected – the old fire in the crowded theater point.
The church that used to picket at military funerals to protest gays in the military were being a bunch of jerks, but they were not breaking the law. Yet, it was also the right of military veterans to stand in their way so the mourners could not see these jerks. Keith
Hello Keith. Where did I suggest violence? What I said was ” I will be damned before I accept them as being OK on my country now”. I do not see it as violence to work as hard as possible to make them unwanted and unacceptable in society. After all the religious groups have been doing that to the LGBTQ+ forever. There can be no tolerance for their intolerance of others. It is an ideology built on hate and superiority and it must be ingrained that it cannot and should not be accepted as OK to be that way in modern society. IMO Hugs
Thanks for adding your clarification. Sadly, our history has been one of these folks feeling more empowered and coming out of the woodwork. When 25% of the Senate and over 100 Congress reps were affiliated with the KKK back in the late 1920s, that is a scary thought. When “Birth of a Nation” is one of the top 100 most influential movies of all time, that is scary. Jim Crow was scary. As were the Communist witch hunts and Lavendar scare. Now, we have this hate-filled stuff resurfacing and we indeed must shine a spotlight on it. Violence cannot be the answer. Education, awareness must be our weapons. Otherwise the message will get cloudy. Thanks my friend, Keith
Hello Keith. You and several of your commenters keep saying violence must never be the answer. Yet neither should acceptance. We either build a better union with inclusivity and tolerance for diversity or we simply watch as these thugs / brownshirts take over with threats, intimidation, and violence on their part. Unlike a lot of people, I carried a gun for most of my working life. I had to learn something most police today are not taught, the only time it was legally allowed for me to use violence and my gun was when there was immediate danger of death or severe bodily harm to myself or another. And it had to be proportional to the threat. I understand the difference between words and actions. I also understand that not standing up against these people emboldens them. So as our fellow progressives and anti-racist bigots did in the history of our past, I will stand up now as needed to respond to and fight against the new brown shirt militia gang thugs who want to take over the country by violence and intimidation. Hugs
Scottie, I love you like a brother, but on this issue, I will disagree with you. Violence only begets more violence and dulls the message. I understand the need to defend yourself, but pray you will never need to unholster your weapon. Best wishes to you and your spouse. Please take care. Keith
One in five??? 20% of the people polled, which is presumably representative of the larger populace, think that violence to achieve a political end is okay? This is appalling, but … I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised. Yes, I blame Trump to a large extent … he opened a door that no president has ever opened before, at least not in the past century. And then there was Greg Gianforte who beat up a reporter for The Guardian and won his election anyway — Gianforte is now the Governor of Montana. But despite Trump, Gianforte and others like them opening the proverbial gate … apparently the belief that violence is ‘okay’ was there in the minds of those 20% (or maybe more) all along. It partially explains the maniacal gun culture in this nation, which makes is even more frightening.
Jill, it does indeed. Gianforte bragged on beating up a reporter. That was a sad statement in its own right. On the flip side, this is a reason I feel the homes of politicians and judges should not be used for protesting, as we have too many that are wound too tight. All it takes is one extreme action for people to be harmed. I am reminded of the guy in South Florida arrested for sending bombs in the mail to certain Democrats or the guy who shot up a Republican Congressional baseball practice. We simply cannot have that. Keith
Sigh. I know you’re right … we are all wound too tight and all it takes to set off an explosion is one tiny spark.
In my opinion, it all comes down to a lack of respect. If there was respect, there was no violence and no abusive language.
Erika, agreed. Of course, right now I am watching a movie about Nazi’s taking over a Latvian town and the propaganda about Jews they promulgated to round them up. First, labeling, followed by name calling, followed by disinformation and then followed by arrest and finally killing. Keith
Their evil strategy.
Agreed.
Note to Readers: If someone you knew parroted these “violence is OK” comments and the even worse that “killing is OK,” to me a suitable follow-up question is do you really believe that or are just saying that? I think if asked, some would back off those inane and harmful remarks. The push back question admonishes them and hopefully will make them think. I honestly think some who say BS like that are just blowing smoke. Of course, there are some jerks who believe this crap is OK.
Heartbreaking indeed. “The folks who are pleading guilty or being convicted for an insurrection” are viewed as heroes to a large group of Americans. They are viewed as soldiers who’ve made the ultimate sacrifice for their righteousness. They’ve fallen on their swords.
This is why I feel an impending sense of doom for America, and for the world as we know it.
I’ve been bashed for suggesting that people who verbally and physically assault members of SCOTUS in their private lives are just as bad as those who do the same to our local school board members who tried to sensibly and safely navigate a pandemic. People on all sides have absolutely lost their minds.
There are too many of us. It is getting to hot to think straight. The planet will regenerate when humanity is gone.
Linda, keep pushing back. Folks pleading guilty or being found guilty cannot be viewed as heroes. They are seditionists. Sadly, they believed one of the few people in the world that others should not believe.
We must tell people to think about what they are doing. Supporting violence or agitation of a SCOTUS Justice means they condone the reciprocal treatment of people they support. Keith
The pathway to communal violence is a complex one. When serious histories are written on the subject the causes are multiple. At some juncture on that path it is easy to pin-point one group as being the ‘villains’ and the other the ‘victims’, then at other stages the victim side can be seen as complacent, if not a little arrogant, and again at other stages the focus will shift.
Maybe it’s the European speaking in me, but I have to say Keith, it is in the Nature of Communities to resort to conflict at some stage, the result being in the long run there are no true winner, only suffering and destruction.
Currently the Right are playing a most dangerous game, in that they are stoking up resentment. Furnace heat may be a while off, but the number of groups they are threatened by law and physical intimidation are rising. Within those groups the majority will seek to redress the balance through the civil ways.
However, you mentioned 7%.
In a social group of 10,000 that is a figure of 700. Which makes for a disturbing number of militants.
In a community of 100,000 that translates into 7,000 people willing to take up weapons; the figures may not divide up equally. The spectre of Tulsa still hangs heavy.
Of course discussing this has a danger of being a self-fulfilling prophecy as some folk will say ‘We gotta get armed and get them before they get us’. Hand guns, stones and petrol bombs do not carry the same sense of dread as Nuclear Weapons.
On the other hand, the more this issue is addressed the more the populists can be exposed for what they are. Silly folk playing with matches in a high summer forest. To be disowned.
And not being involved is no longer an option.
The apathetic in the end will be as guilty as the extremists for any disaster.
The USA was lucky after the Civil War; even then it cost the well being and lives of African-Americans south of the Mason-Dixon line.
Look to Europe for the lessons
Roger, well-articulated. And, this is why allowing assault weapons is beyond a poor idea. Keith
Quite so Keith.
In quieter times you could imagine it as the plot for a satire on gun owning. Someone who wishes ill of the USA manipulates the gun market and culture into being assault weapons are necessary.
Fiction becomes truth.
Take care.
Roger, you have hit upon a key tactic. When all institutions are defamed and people are taught to not trust them, it makes it easier for the cheats, liars and frauds to make hay. When violence exists, it is easier to sell weapons of harm. This marketing could not be planned and executed any better. One thing folks like Donald Trump recognize is fear sells. Teach fear to people and you can sell them your solution. What these folks don’t realize is the seller is the problem, not the solution.
One of my favorite examples is the InfoWars propagandist Alex Jones did a series of rants on liberals polluting your water to make you impotent (sounds like a recent Tucker Carlson bit). Then he would do a commercial to sell you his specially designed water filtration system. This would be comical if the commercials were not true. John Oliver once said Alex Jones’ show is an infomercial disguised as an opinion show. He spends more time selling product than his rants. Keith
Thank you Keith.
Fear-Merchants and Snake Oil peddlers selling to the rubes.
People go on at great length about Deep State as if they knew something and yet fall for these tawdry lines, just like earlier generations accepting that tobacco was good for sinuses and lungs. (MAD was running satires on the tobacco industry’s campaigns when I was teenager).
The problem now is that the whole issue has become politicized between Right and Moderate.
And Moderate in most cases is being far too moderate in its public addresses….Not enough fire or rallying…
Well termed. Beware of the Snake Oil salesman! They are far worse than the contrived problem.
Note to Readers: A Republican Party congressman was attacked yesterday. This BS has to stop. It is criminal behavior – full stop. I would say the same thing, as should we all, if this was AOC or some other Democrat legislator. This is just wrong and attackers need to be charged with assault if they do this, regardless of party.
These are horrible statistics! Truly sad to think we have sunk that low. Your last line was perfect, “find the door before its too late! ” These groups that promote violence need to be shut down!
Thanks Joy. Totally agree. Keith
Well that’s frightening. What have we become?
Betsy, this is definitely not good form. I want to ask people, do you really believe that or are you saying it for shock effect? If they do believe it, they should be embarrassed by it. Keith
Clearly some people believe it, because some people are actually doing it.
Sadly, true. Keith
Note to Readers: A key question to ask those who want to commit violence or kill people is simple. Are you sure you want to damage your reputation or risk death or incarceration for people who are well known to be untruthful. There are countless people whose reputations are worse for having been involved with Donald Trump. A good leader makes you better, a bad one makes you worse.